Clone Talk

[duffy]

Here about 6 mos. ago , I wanted to do something with my family that we all would enjoy doing together. Talking with a friend ,We heard about go kart racing and the box stock clones which we as a family could afford. Each day, I log into a couple different sites and read all the new things that are being said about the clones. I'm writing this so that our friends know I ( We ) do have an interest in whats going on here. I'm just learning how to race and how to take care of my kart. Keeping up with the Politics is another job for this old man. As time moves forward I will share my feelings and Ideals about the Box Stock Clone Class. We do need rules , But for right now I'll hold back on my 2 cents worth & learn about my kart and what makes it tick & how to be a better racer, But I do feel there is good reason for a meeting of the ones who have clones and race and others who are interested in the clones. Our Family would be more than happy to take part in setting up some rules. But for right now guys... as for myself I have alot to learn both about karts and racing. But I will say as a father and best friend this is the most fun I have had in years. I thank the ones who have helped us out.

[speedrome]

And thats what this is all about Duffy, racing and having fun... IMO I think its important to really get on top of the clone class to keep the bad stuff out before its too late.. This isnt so much politics as it is a warning of things to come. Dont let a passionate plea for logic to be confused with politics.

[Steve Bryant]

AKRA seems to have a pretty good set of rules for box stock, including rules for claiming. Might be something to look at for a start.

AKRA's 2009 Box Stock Rules - updated 6/1/2009

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Until the new book comes out, I have consolidated AKRA's Box Stock rules with the updates for everyones convenience.
For further information, Go to AKRA's website HERE

americankarting.us/website/modules/news/

Quote:
Section 8 – AKRA Box Stock Project
Class Structure
Participant ages are determined as of January 1st.
BOX STOCK SENIOR* Age 15 years & up – 375 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only – Approved engine: BS Project 6.5
OHV only, with Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches only. (Tires EL Maxxis or
Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK SR CHAMP* Age 15 years & up – 400 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project
6.5 OHV only, with Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches only. (Tires EL Maxxis
or Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK JUNIOR 1* Age 8 to 10 years – 265 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project 6.5
OHV only, with .500 inch maximum intake restrictor, no steering fairing allowed , maximum nose height 14 inches
from ground level to top of nose, and Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches only.
(Tires EL Maxxis or Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK JUNIOR 11* Age 10 to 12 years – 290 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project
6.5 OHV only, with .550 inch maximum intake restrictor, no steering fairing allowed , maximum nose height 14
inches from ground level to top of nose, and Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum shoe type clutches
only. (Tires EL Maxxis or Local Club Tire Rule)
BOX STOCK JUNIOR 111* Age 12 to 15 years –320 lbs. – 87 Octane Gas Only - Approved engine: BS Project
6.5 OHV only, and Factory Stock exhaust required. Stamped steel drum
shoe type clutches only. (Tires EL Maxxis or Local Club Tire Rule)

ENGINE SPECIFIC TECH SHEET FOR: BOX STOCK PROJECT 6.5 OVH
Description: Single cylinder, 2 valve, OHV 4 cycle
Important Note: All parts must be Box Stock Project factory production parts unless otherwise specified in
this rules manual. No machining or alteration of parts is allowed unless specifically noted. All parts will be
subject to a comparison to a know Box Stock part (when performing a comparison check it is recommended
to use a + /- .005” tolerance). Engine will be teched as raced. There will also be a $200 claiming rule in place
for this engine. Refusing to accept the claimer will result in immediate disqualification of competitor along
with forfeiture of any points earned to date in class. Competitor will also not be allowed to compete any
longer in that class.

Combustion chamber volume: 27.5 cubic centimeter minimum, with piston at TDC, using prescribed procedure.
Cylinder Head Requirements: Must be OEM casting only. Porting and / or grinding are not permitted. Valve
seats are two angles 45 degrees valve face and 30 degrees top relief. Stock head bolts only, must have four. Head
gasket maybe after market, must be of stock configuration. No copper or aluminum gaskets allowed. Stock exhaust
system only with no modifications. Any stock configuration gasket allowed no other sealer.
Bore and Stroke: Stock cylinder bore is 2.685” max. Stroke is 2.123” + / - .005”.

Carburetor requirements: Huayi OR RUI*ING model carb only. Carb to intake sealer is gasket only no other sealer allowed.
Choke must be as supplied from factory, but may be fixed to stay in open position. Choke bore .810” NO-GO.
Venturi .615” NO-GO. Rear carb bore .751” NO-GO. Main fuel jet .028” NO-GO. Stock air cleaner assembly only.
Valve Train: Stock valve cover only with any stock configuration gasket, no sealer.
Factory stock rocker arms and push rods only. Stock valves only 45 degree angle only both valves, no modifications allowed. Only Box Stock
valve springs only. Max wire diameter on spring wire is .0698” with a maximum tension of 10.8 lbs. at a height of
.850”.

Ignition system: Stock Box Stock system only and must be unaltered. Kill switch and low oil sensor may be
disabled and removed.
Flywheel: Box Stock flywheel only with plastic fins. No alterations of any type allowed. Must also run stock
flywheel key.
Piston and Rings: Must be unaltered Box Stock only. No machining of piston and rings allowed.
Connecting Rod: Stock Box Stock rod only. No machining of any type allowed. Stock rod bolts only.
Crankshaft Requirements: Stock Box Stock crankshaft required. Machining, polishing, addition of material or
other alteration of crankshaft is prohibited. Stock factory timing gear mandatory and must be installed in original
location. Crankshaft journal diameter is 1.180”- 1.175” min.

Camshaft Requirements: Stock as cast camshaft only. See profile posted below.
Block Requirements: Block must remain stock as produced. Stub for governor may be removed and hole plugged.
No machining of block allowed. Welding to the block shall be for rod damage repair only and may not constitute a
functional modification.



Quote:
The Following updates are optional changes as of September 1, 2008

Aftermarket air filter adapter allowed (max length of 1.375). Main fuel jet may be drilled to a no-go of .042 inch. Stock emulsion tube must be used and unaltered.

Header and Muffler Requirements: Any single stage, one piece header made from .750” O.D. steel tubing allowed with the BS tube style muffler part #89966 or it’s aftermarket equivalent(ex: rotary power) installed at the end of pipe. The tube style muffler may either be welded or tread fitted to the pipe end. The entire exhaust pipe including the muffler is 14” max length and 10” min length.

Claimer Rule: You must finish the race in the box stock class to purchase the winners engine for $200 (minus the clutch/chain guard/throttle kit, header pipe/muffler, air filter adaptor/air filter, top plate & fuel pump).

The Following updates are mandetory changes as of January 1, 2009
Carburetor/Fuel Tank Requirements: Floor Mounted fuel tank mandetory (stock tank must be removed). Pulse type fuel pump allowed. Fuel pump must be pulsed from either the crank case or the valve cover. You may install a flat metal plate in the original tank location for the purpose of mounting the throttle linkage and fuel pump.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by ARCkartracer : 06-02-09, at 10:08 AM. Reason: Added RUI*ING Carb

[Brad Wunder]

Yes Todd, that was what I was referring to. I was trying to make a larger point and didn’t name you specifically to avoid any further embarrassment for you. Your rationalization for your actions is essentially the same as when this issue initially was brought to our attention and it holds the same weight for me as it did then, which is to say none. If you were trying to fix a problem (that according to Burris doesn’t exist) by using a solution that you personally told me can’t be done (balancing a one cylinder motor) for the betterment of the group I applaud you for it. However, you knew that by doing that the motor is was illegal, especially since you were the tech director at the time. On practice days testing out a motor like that is just fine. But there is NO place for a motor like that on race days. Especially if those changes allow the motor to run over 1000rpm more than anyone else in the class (your assertions of no performance advantages notwithstanding).

This whole topic was beat to death on the old NFRA forum (and I see most of the thread has since been deleted) but I want to make 2 quick points.

1) Knowingly using illegal parts in an NFRA event is not acceptable.
2) Actions that put into question the integrity of the NFRA is not acceptable.


If you have a problem with either of those points I invite you to find the door. NOW I can be accused of “power grabbing” (for you Steven Cobert fans I prefer the term “powergrabbyness”). ;D


Duffy,

I agree with you. I personally want to just go out and race!! Unfortunately, sooner or later rules and cheating will come up. Personally, I like Dan’s idea of the claimer rule. Nice and simple. I don’t have any thoughts when it comes to how much it should cost to claim a motor and I think that should be left up to the clone pilots. I wonder if there will be enough BSCs at the PC GR race to have a little meeting?

[duffy]

I'm all for a meeting of the clone drivers, This is something I feel we need also. You can count on us and I hope others will do the same, See ya at the races

[mikeduff101]

hey hey hey her is my 2 cents
i went to Emmick and talked to Don and we got talking about the clutches. he had a couple concerns about the rules, that he said from his experence will "kill the class"

1. when we were talking about the clutches he asked what the rules were on them and i told him any drum clutch. his comment on that was "what happens when someone buys a $300 dollar adjstable drum clutch and everyone has to get one to compete, if you want to keep the class cheep then you need to stick with one clutch and it should be the Max Torque (i think he said the SS series clutch, cant remember but the clone clutch we be ok or the same series, ie. non adjustable) even though you can get a Noram for 10 bucks on ebay or you allready have a drum clutch it just opens up too many options for the class"
2. The Chassis. five year rule "once you put a year on the chassis a person is allowed to run its going to make the price for thoughs chassis go up, because people will know there the ones people need for the class"

these were don's concerns and he brings up some good points and he has been doing this scense forever

[mikeduff101]

o and i might add..... it seems like the motor is working on the east coast just fine why cant it work here..... and Cheating, you can cheat with any motor in any sport, you can even cheat the 2-cycle motors they race now and there is always some one who isnt honest and we just have to wean them out...
can we have a meeting before or after the PC race?

[jason45]

Hey guys, why don't we get together the weekend before the race at P.C. As far as the clutches go, I only have the noram, so I will not be able to change to a max torque. We can argue about clutches all day. I understand that Don is pushing the max torque, because that is what he carries. I think it is great that he is willing to support this class. In the same argument I can say that Rick at R&M can get any part for the noram clutches and the max torque. We need to decide which clutch will be used, or which two will be accepted.
Lets get together and talk about this at the track.

[mikeduff101]

like i said i had a blast at the race so it dosent matter to me what clutch we run right now..... i changin to the 16tooth max torque that karl was running anyway... my family will be gone the weekend before the race and it seems like everyone will be at the race so why not do it then..... no one should have to change before the PC race, we can run what we got it wont make a diffrence with our group right now we are all pretty evenly mached, but yes jason lets talk at the track with everyone there....
but most important lets have fun at the race ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[norcalacr]

I distributed a proposed set of rules for the NFRA clone class. If you did not get the email or need another copy please send me a PM with your contact information.

[norcalacr]

A few things to keep in mind:

1) It's not possible to legislate common sense. No surprise, I know.

2) If a racer wants to spend to the moon for a $40 trophy, let him (see #1).

3) As long as we focus on the important few items, racers will have the opportunity to be competitive at a very low cost.

[mikeduff101]

Jul 22, 2009 13:14:05 GMT -5 norcalacr said:

A few things to keep in mind:
2) If a racer wants to spend to the moon for a $40 trophy, let him (see #1).quote]

i dont know what trophy's you are getting but the one's i got couldnt have cost more then 10 bucks lol