Rebuilding the F200 class

[brad42]

Well, 2010 saw the F200 class completely tank except for Scoots. F200 is what the NFRA was started for, it is our "flagship" class.

I got word from 2 clone drivers at Atwater that they are interested in F200 for next year, possibly utilizing my two motors. One or two more and we can get back to some exciting racing.

So, I have 2 requests:

1) If you are a former F200 driver and still have your equippment, please either come out and race or sell it so someone else can.

2) If you are contemplating 4 cycle racing and want something with more sizzle than a clone, please jump in. If there are no used F200s for sale we can help find you one, and there are several complete packages not being run and potentially for sale.

[Simon]

I'm certainly thinking of running something other than clone next year. I was thinking WF, but am open to considering alternatives.

How do the F200s compare to the WFs in terms of cost to get up and running, refresh intervals/costs, longevity, etc. Can these motors be freshened up by the likes of me in my garage shop, or would I be back into paying someone to freshen the motor ?

The thing I really like about the clones is that there is so much information out there on the net on rebuilding and tweaking those motors, I would hate to get back into a motor that is all a black art that nobody wants to share information on.

I will go with the flow. If there is a critical mass moving towards one particular motor, then I would most likely drift in that direction. I'm not sure how motivated my son will be to race next year, so if he hangs up his helmet I will be a little more serious about my racing next season and also really want to try some road racing. Is the F200 a strong motor for road races ?

Simon.

[brad42]

From a class size standpoint, the WF has the F200 beat hands down in Nor Cal road racing. The F200 is faster, but there are more people running WFs.

We had several drivers doing their own freshen ups at one point. Others had a local speed shop do the work, and others had a kart motor builder do them. Not so much "black art", but a few special tools are needed. I happen to have them all. I would say that the WF is the same way in terms of freshening, but might have a little more longevity with the rev limiter.

WF is more user freindly IMHO, with the combination of rev limiter and no fuss carb, it is get in and go. The F200's Tillotson carb can be a fussy bugger.

But the F200 is faster. More Fast = More Fun. More fun = F200

[SeanW51]

Would love to do either... more fast=more fun.... less fuzzy>more fuzzy... Clone=no fuzzy.... Clone=NO fast..... i just cant decide... what i can say though is that i would swap my TAG for a good WF or F200 right now. I think we need to pick one and stick with it.. sorry if my post didnt make any sense, im very tired!... in other news my back is back to normal and i cant wait to race again!

[scoots27]

F-200ssssssss yes please bring them on!
Do you want to go a bit faster?
Yes you do.

[viacruc]

As a former F200 pilot I would like to chime in here.
I will not go into the reasons here why I am no longer racing as thats another story in itself best saved for another time.

I do want to let everyone know that my F200 package is for sale.

To answer the questions above, the F200 is a very reliable package if not taken out to the absolute bleading edge. Everyone knows when I was racing that I rebuilt my own motor with Ricks help in his garage. The rebuild was about $300 (including parts and head refreshing). Scott and I have both had our motors up at the 9000 rpm range a few times without implosion (or explosion). Granted, at the time, I had all of the latest parts that were available from Burris. But I did take religious care of my engine and clutch, carb, etc.
To properly run an F200 package you must be commited to all of its details and intricacies. BradW will tell you, I was always "touching" the kart when I was at the track. And I worked on it even more between races to keep it in peak condition.
F200 is a tuners class so be prepared to tune. Allow yourself to commit to that idea and you will have fun and be competitive.

In my 2 seasons of F200, I have never had a single engine
related failure (which everyone in the paddock can attest to) and I like to think I had at least something to do with that. For some reason though, I was in the minority. Others have had some bad luck and I can't really pinpoint why that was happening. For me it was all about paying attention to all the details all the time.

Just know this. F200 is very, very exciting racing. I highly and with extreme predjudice recommend all 4-cycle enthusiasts to at least try a few laps in someones kart and compare it to the other classes you've seen or driven. All it takes is a few laps and I know you'll be a true believer.

OK - now for my shameless sales pitch. I'm asking $1600 obo for my kart. Pictures are available by email to anyone who asks. Test drives are available for the serious. Because I'm not a member of any of the club tracks, I ask those that want a test drive to pay the practice fee for the particular track we meet at.

If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to email me (viacruc at yahoo dot com)

thanks for listening and checkered flags for all,

-Paul

[Rick]

Paul, your so right, it is very exciting seat of your pants class. also, a former F200 now clone driver, not by choice just lack of funds. I still have the motor and will race it again if i get a chance.

[Brad Wunder]

I'd LOVE to see more F200s out there racing. They are d**n fun! As has been mentioned, if they aren't run too hard they can be reliable. When we started running them we targeted 8300-8400 rpm. No motor problems. When we started running them 8600-8900 I blew up 3 of them in 18 months. You can run them over 9K, at least for a while. Not sure what happens (whether it is a harmonics thing or something else I don't know) but then the reliability seems to go away. But to me, therein lies the problem. If you aren't willing to spin your motor that high you will have a helluva time keeping up with someone who IS willing to spin them (IE Scoots-how many have you blown up now Scoots?) into the 9s. The difference between 8400 and 9K is about 4-5 teeth which is HUGE coming out of the corners.

While not quite as fast, the WF is more if a bolt the sucker on sort of deal. I still maintain the clutch, check last etc. (just like I did on my f200s) but that is about it. Over the course of a season I was spending about $150 on friction plates alone with my F200. With the WF I've run the same clutch for going on 2 years and haven't replaced squat.

I truly believe there is a place for both F200s and WFs in what we are trying to do. To me the F200s are more of a tinker package that is fastest thing we run. The WF is a lets just go race package (and you will have someone to race with if you are interested in road racing) with less things to go wrong...oh, and you push to little botton on the steering wheel to get it started. LOL

[ron90]

I'm not gone, just trying to build my back strength up after a non-kart driving back injury.

[Scott]

The F200 class has attracted my interest in joining kart racing in '11.
However, are there enough participants out there to make a decent class? Are the norcal tracks even running F200 (or WF)? The few people I've spoken with say 4-stroke classes are almost non-existent (except for Clone which, no offense, sounds boring to me).
Besides, who sells F200 motors in Northern Calif. (SF bay area hopefully)? I haven't found any yet.
I'm curious, how does F200 compare to TaG, i.e. is F200 less expensive, more durable/reliable than the TaG motors?

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Brad Wunder]

Scott, we've love to have you come out and join us. You've got my home number so give me a call if you'd like to yak about what we've got going on.

[mitchwright]

We have both complete assmebled F200 engines and Burris F200 engine kits in stock.
Mitch Wright [e-mail] or Robert Yardley [e-mail] Kart Center Number 435 277 8575
We have had great luck with F200's but have found that running the engines over 8500 on our 900' straight does shorten engine life. What we have found is getting the chassis to work and kepping the RPM below 8500 we are going faster than the when we ran 9000+

Just our experiance

[Brad Wunder]

When you say shorten the life do you mean you need to freshen them up more frequently or do you mean they go boom and you have an air conditioned block and/or broken crank?

Good to see you back on the board Mitch.

[Scott]

I'd like to get involved in 4-stroke racing but I have been at several races lately & have yet to see one F200 kart (saw 1 WF).
From my uninitiated POV, seems like there ought to be one class - F200 or WF.
F200 sounds attractive powerwise but the minuses: to be competitive I gather you have to spend $$, e.g. ported head, upgraded components; the external starter (another expense) - if you stall out during a race, you're out & all your prep time & $$ are wasted; plus the time involvement - what needs so much tinkering? And if you want to get more speed you have to weight revs vs. destroying your motor. So it seems like there will be a disparity in competition between the more conservative racers & the ones willing to spend more $$.
WF sounds slower but a less expensive route: sealed engine so everyone is on a more level playing field; on-board starter so you can stay in the race if something happens (which inevitably will); and, apparently better motor reliability & longevity. Plus I like the road race option.
Be nice if you could get one class w/ more karts.
Bottom line I'm not going to spend the $$ on a kart that has no class to run in.
I hope 4-stroke racing catches on. I'd really like to go racing. . . and sorry this long post.
If I'm off on any of this, please educate me.

[Brad Wunder]

Hey Scott. There has been at least one F200 at every race this year. It's the REALLY loud and fast kart driven by Scoots (#27). ;D I think your take was pretty much right on regarding most of your other observations. The tinkering comes into play when you are talking about the carb (needles, diaphram replacements etc.) and the clutch (spring heights which govern engagement rpms, friction disks, floaters, air gap etc.) You are also correct when it comes to the disparity of performance between wanting to max out performance vs. extending engine life. Scoots can speak to that after having another motor expire at Stockton last weekend.

Having said all that, they are a blast to drive! ;D

I am obviously bias towards the WF. It is nice to have the on-board starter even though I've only needed to use it once during a race. The opportunity to go road racing againts 6-15 other WFs is another huge plus. I'll get of my soap box now before I start repeating myself once again.

Not having good numbers of karts to run against is unfortunate. Looking forward to next year there are a number of clone drivers looking to move into either F200s or WFs so counts in those classes should increase (also, Scoot B now has a WF and Karl has one too, I just need to convince him to strap it onto his kart LOL).