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Post by kevink16 on Feb 10, 2011 22:31:56 GMT -5
Hey everyone, my names Kevin and I would really like to get into karting this season. I'm a full time college student so my initial draw towards clones was the fact that it seemed to be the absolute cheapest karting class to run but the more I read on sites like this it also seems like the clone guys are doing this mainly to have fun and that's exactly what I'm looking to do. I am currently in Sacramento going to Sac state and so I would probably be looking to race at PC, Davis, and maybe Dixon. What are the clone classes like at these locations? How are the turnouts? Also, I know the shops in the area sell Birel, Emmick, Top Kart, and Margay chassis, do these shops come out and do track support at races? I'll probably try and find a chassis from one of those companies if they do. Also just wanted to clarify some things I think are right but not certain on: 1. Clones run YKC tires at all tracks but they have to be used? 2. Is the EC U-build it clone kit legal for racing out here? I've read a lot of good things about these kits on here and 4cyclekarting and it seems like the way to go if I buy a rolling chassis www.eccarburetors.com/estore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=226_175&products_id=2391&zenid=tlnrrq02igtdss62la2u5lduv03. Any type of chassis can be used but some need modification of the rear crossmember to make the chain linkage work? On that same note is it usually better to go with a thinner tubing chassis (30mm) and a smaller axle because these engines aren't powerful enough to need a stiff chassis? Any other advice you guys think is important would also be great. Thanks for the help -Kevin |
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Post by brad42 on Feb 11, 2011 10:46:51 GMT -5
Kevin, I'll answer best I can, others will chime in as well.
We are starting the season with clones running YKC tires, it might change mid-season. The "used" rule is a "spirit of intent" rule that really means we don't want you going out and spending $200 on a set of tires each and every race. We may tease you in the pits if we see new tires, but nobody will kick you out or anything.
The EC kit motor is an excellent deal from what I have seen, Terry has a few of them and can probably comment more. Yes they are legal.
Rolling chassis from Emmick work without any modification at all. Some Margays do or don't depending on the model. All European chassis need one tube moved to clear the rear sprocket in the sizes we typically run. Go for something around 5 years old or less for the best value/performance.
Welcome aboard. Feel free to come out to any of the tracks you mentioned (I would add stockton to your list).
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cazman
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by cazman on Feb 11, 2011 11:39:03 GMT -5
Hey Kevin....you're already sounding too smart for this endeavor! (jst kid'n) It sounds like you're doing your homework! If you'd like, you're welcome too look up, and talk with the #8 Clone and Yamaha kart team at Dixon next weekend. We have an "EC" also....and more. Good Luck and have fun!!
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Post by tommy toro on Feb 11, 2011 12:23:02 GMT -5
Well Kevin as of 2 years ago this was the class that would never work, they laughed at us calling us the lawn mowers, as of today were the biggest class running, so a turn out of 15 to 20 clones is not that uncommon, last year we gridded 30+ at Reno, although we would like to improve upon our number this year,
as far as support, you'll find that us clone guys tend to support ourselfs almost as a club within ourselfs, so if your broke down at the track theres a very good chance someone will help you get it going and help you with set up, we want you on the track, theres fun in numbers, and the more the merrier.
As far as chassis, I'd go with Brads suggestion of an older Emmick or something clone friendly where you dont need to modify the cross bar, I also hear Road Rat is really stepping up there game in the clone market, might want to take a look at there websight if your on a budget, as you say your a collage student, actually seen one last year, not bad,
as far as tires, who knows, I'll wait to see how that pans out and keep my eyes open at the tracks for used ones, Donald usually has a stack of them behind the Biriel trailor.
hopefully we'll see you soon.
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Post by kevink16 on Feb 11, 2011 22:06:32 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info guys, especially about the emmicks and most margays not needing modified. I will try and keep my eyes open for one of those then because I would prefer to not cut up a frame in case I ever want to resell it or change classes.
Another question I had that I haven't really been able to find any information about on here is clone engine life span and rebuild intervals. I know all 2 cycle engines only have a limited hour count before needing rebuilds and therefore costing the racer a ton of money. In the clone class where we're only running a $200 dollar engine do people even rebuild them or just race them till they're junk and buy a new one? If they do need to be rebuilt or replaced what is the average time interval that an engine is good for?
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Post by tommy toro on Feb 11, 2011 23:22:08 GMT -5
To be honest, $99 to $149 is about the limit after you have your top plate header, intake, clutch and other goodies. Kind of the reason behind the claimer rule, Yes Kevin there is a Claimer rule, as in you win too much with it or have an enemy someone can claim it for $150, minus your top plate and other goodies, long block only, and it has to pass tech, or it will be destoyed or you will be banished, kind of the reason behind the clone, throwing money at a $99 clone dosent make a lot of sence, actually they run best right before they blow up, so feel free to claim mine, theres about a season and a half on it just racing and countless laps of practice, so I'm on the fence about weather to just cough up the $99 or run this thing till it blows, but I have no intentions of rebuilding it, so my best case senerio is I win a few races with it and someone claims it before it blows up. OK a guy can dream cant he?
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Post by kevink16 on Feb 11, 2011 23:44:45 GMT -5
Tommy, thanks for the opinion on the engines. I was getting to $200 number based on the price of buying a full complete engine kit like the ones I've looked at. I knew there was a claimer rule but didnt know that claiming only took your long block. And I also hadn't thought about the fact that when you replace an engine you only need to replace the long block. If you can get 1 and 1/2 seasons out of a clone engine then I think it makes total sense to run them till they blow and not bother rebuilding. That's actually a lot longer than I thought these engines would last, I was afraid I would find out they need rebuildings every 3 racers or something because they are so inexpensive. The more I learn from you guys the more excited I get to get me a clone!
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Post by Mac on Feb 12, 2011 0:39:58 GMT -5
Hey Kevin, If you are going to get EC Birt's $199 special you need to order before 2/14 or you'll be stuck with shipping. He posted that on the 4 cycle blogs this last week. Run, don't walk to the phone and join us!  |
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cazman
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by cazman on Feb 12, 2011 12:58:37 GMT -5
Kevin....(FYI) don't jump too quickly in2 the pot and keep doing ur hmwrk! I am not trying 2sell you anything, but.....we do have a proven '05 Emmick "Patriot" chassis that we ran last year as a Clone and is our 'back-up' kart this season that is available. Also, the "EC" engine is a 'good' piece.....however, (4us)....it's not our 'best' piece. In regard too engine life.....you can expect a full season of racing (and practice) out of these engines so long as you have a good maintenance program. As for myself, if I have a 'good' motor....I will re-build it, rather than give it up at the risk of acquiring another 'good' motor! At this point, if ur just looking to get 'seat time' and get some racing experience....the "EC" is a good way 2go! Good Luck
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Post by brad42 on Feb 12, 2011 22:02:04 GMT -5
The claim price was upped to $200 for this season. It was costing me $168 to get replacements here from ARC with shipping.
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Post by Simon on Feb 13, 2011 4:04:35 GMT -5
Regarding how long these motors last, my first motor was a blue harbor freight. i ran it for 18 months before deciding it must be getting tired so opened it up to take a look. I was amazed, bottom end was perfect, I could still see the hone crosshatch markings on the cylinder wall, the piston looked fine with maybe a touch of blow-by past the rings, the valves still sealed perfectly. A new set of rings and new valve springs and it is better than new. Change the oil frequently ... very frequently ... and don't run them to insane temperatures and they last a surprisingly long time.
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Post by kevink16 on Feb 13, 2011 19:50:19 GMT -5
As far as oil changes go, I think I read somewhere on here that its best to always drain the oil after every day of practice or racing and to never store it with oil in the engine. I will also most likely have to store my kart vertically due to storage space which would be another reason I'd have to drain it before storing. So I guess that means basically new oil everytime I run it? Is this what most people do?
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Post by tommy toro on Feb 13, 2011 21:17:01 GMT -5
The real reason to change your oil frequently is these things typically run 400+ degrees and usually hotter in the summer months, I've hit 469 Yikes! and like to see around 430, so in other words were asking a lot more from them than your average rototiller, and I dont care if the oil company advertises protects against thermal breakdown, because I really dont think they were testing there product on clone engines at Dixon in August, Know what I mean? but just a heads up, for break in avoid a synthetic, just a straight 30 weight is fine and a break in oil or break in additive is even better, then you can switch to whatever you want,
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warx
Full Member
Posts: 197
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Post by warx on Feb 14, 2011 16:29:16 GMT -5
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Post by kevink16 on Feb 15, 2011 0:39:50 GMT -5
Thanks for all the help guys. Have one more question though, I read on the Dixon club sites in the rules that for 2011 all classes were required to run a rear bumper that covers at least 50% of each rear tire. So I'm assuming they are talking about using a new style plastic bumper that cover the whole rear end basically and the old metal ones are out. Is this a new IKF rule for all tracks or just something Dixon is requiring? Does this rule affect the clone class or is it just for 2 cycles?
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